Alignment matters

[shnazzle]

Was rifling through old paperwork to see if there was anything of any value/use for the new owner of my car and found two printouts of alignment results that are quite telling.

Alignment is quite key to how the car feels, tyre wear, grip, etc.
Often we take it to whatever place offers the service for cheapest or we assume that if a place uses Hunter laser alignment systems, it's good.
It's not. It's being able to use it correctly that matters.

Below is an example of an "alignment" and an alignment.
The first one cost 60GBP and they only did toe adjustments. That's fine, but notice how everything is green. The tolerances are such that "close enough" is OK.

Then the right one was a full geometry at AK  Automotive, where I also had the camber set on the rear to -2. It cost 100GBP, which included the install of rear camber adjustment bolts. 
Night and day.
You cannot view this attachment.

[shnazzle]

PS I don't recommend the setup above
Either run stock settings or if you're going to do a lot of twisty cornering, also camber the front. Just cambering the rear is definitely something I regret but couldn't afford to get it realigned again soon after

[McMr2]

Was rifling through old paperwork to see if there was anything of any value/use for the new owner of my car and found two printouts of alignment results that are quite telling.

Alignment is quite key to how the car feels, tyre wear, grip, etc.
Often we take it to whatever place offers the service for cheapest or we assume that if a place uses Hunter laser alignment systems, it's good.
It's not. It's being able to use it correctly that matters.

Below is an example of an "alignment" and an alignment.
The first one cost 60GBP and they only did toe adjustments. That's fine, but notice how everything is green. The tolerances are such that "close enough" is OK.

Then the right one was a full geometry at AK  Automotive, where I also had the camber set on the rear to -2. It cost 100GBP, which included the install of rear camber adjustment bolts.
Night and day.
You cannot view this attachment.

Totally agree. I spent similar on a full alignment by someone who knows what they are doing. The telling thing is when the garage asks a lot of questions about the type of driving you do and then encourage you to drive it and report back. A world away from just being within allowable tolerances.

Much is made of how sensitive these cars are to tyres and pressures, but a 'proper' geo is money well spent IMHO.

[Dev]

 I found the best alignment which I recommend for a lot of owners is 0 toe up front for responsiveness and a hint of positive toe in the rear for high speed stability. Unless the camber is out of wack or you need more then camber adjust is a good move. Camber doesn't have to be exact but toe should be. Four wheel thrust angle alignment is what these Hunter machines default to which is the worst alignment you can get for a car like ours.

[Ardent]

Alignment is quite key to how the car feels, tyre wear, grip, etc.
Often we take it to whatever place offers the service for cheapest or we assume that if a place uses Hunter laser alignment systems, it's good.
It's not. It's being able to use it correctly that matters.

Spot on. It's not just the kit, it's the tech using it. Makes all the difference.

[Ardent]

Much is made of how sensitive these cars are to tyres and pressures, but a 'proper' geo is money well spent IMHO.

Spot on, So often over looked.

[Ardent]

I had new shocks and springs, sub frame and tyres. It was not until a full fat geo was done, did it bring the whole package together.
Hat tip to, wheels in motion.

[Beachbum957]

Spot on. It's not just the kit, it's the tech using it. Makes all the difference.

Absolutely.  It isn't the equipment but the operator.  I had an alignment done on our everyday car at a dealer with the latest high end alignment equipment, and it was terrible with the steering off center and a pull to the right. But the printout looked very nice. A local shop was much more careful, found the actual settings didn't match the fancy printout, and fixed the problem.  And the cost was higher at the dealer!

I do my own alignments with a digital level for camber and string lines and take my time (it takes a LOT of time) and had it checked at a local shop, and it was very close to what I wanted.

The MR2 seems very sensitive to alignment, particularly toe, and the "ideal" seems to vary even with different tires.

[rusty0273]

I know we have a few Milton Keynes guys on here. Anybody used these guys for wheel alignment?
https://www.jpswheelalignmentcentre.co.uk/
I had front toe done recently at B&T Tyres (basic laser system) and its still pulling to the left.

[Carolyn]

I know we have a few Milton Keynes guys on here. Anybody used these guys for wheel alignment?
https://www.jpswheelalignmentcentre.co.uk/
I had front toe done recently at B&T Tyres (basic laser system) and its still pulling to the left.

I've found that alignment often is not the direct cause of a car pulling off line. Alignment generally  has more to do with quality of steering response and tyre wear.

If your car is pulling to the left, tyre pressure, uneven treadwear (perhaps as a consequence of poor alignment), or a loose a-arm bush that is allowing the axle to move under braking, could well be the problem.

[rusty0273]

Thanks Carolyn.
Yes - tyre pressures would be my first port of call, particularly if experienced under acceleration of braking but good on that front. Tyres are part worn but pretty even (not ruled out entirely).
Think the suspension bushes are OK as the car has been looked over recently and alignment has been advised.
On the straight, steady speed, the car is veering left and wheel is out of line to correct. Feels like alignment to me and I just think the first guys to look at it haven't done a proper job.
After reading Schnazzle's post just got me thinking I'd better go full geo check rather than front toe, cheap & cheerful.
Any opinions on JPS welcomed as they are pretty close by and seem to get decent feedback online..

[Ardent]

@rusty0273

Depending where you are in Bucks. Wheels in motion are close to you. Very good rep.

[barchetta_ms]

I've used these at Silverstone before:
https://www.blacknrounds.com/

[rusty0273]

Thanks Jason & barchetta.
Both are a bit far for me. I'm booked in with JPS. Will feedback on my impressions. They seem to do a lot of modified Jap stuff so seems like a good option (my car is a 2ZZ SC swap on Teins).

[Ardent]

Looking forward to the update

[Ardent]

I might try here.
https://centergravity.co.uk/

Not sure anyone has actually used them on here. But certainly talk the talk.

[rusty0273]

Looks like my alignment was all over the place.

[shnazzle]

Looks like my alignment was all over the place.

-2.deg camber without camber bolts is impressive

Hopefully it feels a bit better now 

[fawtytoo]

Had mine done this morning at my local Protyre outlet.
I have a standard setup.