Scarey Moment

[Anonymous]

Looks like bad luck is around as we are getting rid of the 2' at the end of the 2. Thought I would post about my sh*t myself moment, as a warning, or maybe so you can tell me what I "should" have done.

I was wizzing down a 2 lane narrow dual carridgeway around 80mph.  Having overtaken and cleared a set of cars, I then started to pull into the left lane, which was on a slight bend.

As I was going around the bend, but still not entirely into the left lane (so probably under quite a bit of strain) there was this bloody great builders bucket right in the middle of the road.

I assumed that hitting this at 80mph would do some damage, so I swerved back into the right hand lane...thats obviously where I went horribly wrong?.

As far as I remember the steering went incredibly light and the back end felt as if it was bouncing behind me.  I held on for dear life, and very slowly came of the accelerator.  This seemed to work and the car settled (unlike my pants).

The whole situation has made me quite glad to get rid really, these where dry sunny conditions (albeit cold) and I am seriously suprised that an emergency manouver would unbalence the car quite so considerbly.

Oh, and whilst I am in complete lose of control of the car, Kerstie says quite calmly "carefull".

[Anonymous]

Yep, that's scarey.

[Slacey]

I hope they will still take it with stained seats  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

I have a guaranteed valuation - they mentioned nothing about messing the seats   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[aaronjb]

I think you're probably lucky you didn't plant it Craig!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

The following bits make me think that;

I was wizzing down a 2 lane narrow dual carridgeway around 80mph.

As I was going around the bend, but still not entirely into the left lane (so probably under quite a bit of strain)

so I swerved back into the right hand lane...

(unlike my pants).

Basically, if the car was well loaded up in a left hand bend, swinging right like that performed a complete weight transfer from RHS to LHS, at speed, under power.. Not good..

Really, that's exactly what you'd do if you wanted to provoke the car into a slide (watch some drifting vids, you'll see your actions performed repeatedly  s;) s;)  ).. And that's the trouble with RWD..

If you'd been driving a FWD car, most likely it'd just have understeered (straight into the bucket.. d'oh!) violently - as that's the way they're set up (safety first, and all that). But in a car like ours, especially rear engined, the front will bite at virtually any speed - everything goes a bit light as the weight transfers between wheels, and the back end attempts to overtake the front..

I suppose in reality if you were really pushing it round the left hand bend, you'd be better off just hitting the bucket and waving goodbye to the bumper - better that than waving goodbye to the bumper, front wings, doors, back wings and back bumper as you pirouette off a few crash barriers..

Trouble is - it's very very hard to stop yourself doing what's natural, and swerving out of the way of the object..

I suppose without having been the one driving, it's hard to say if what happened was just the rapid weight transfer while the car was really loaded in a corner, or whether you were just unlucky and hit a bump that unsettled the car right when it needed all it's grip most..

Anyway.. I'm sure you knew all that anyway  s:) s:)

Glad you missed everything though! I had a friend who had the back end of their car well mangled by a passing (snoozing) motorist once, the day before they were due to trade it in.. Not fun!

[Jap GT300]

I spun it on an uphill left hander yesterday.  My heavy foot was at full use at the time.

I can't believe you guys don't come out of shape more often.  Maybe I'm just too reckless, but I love it sideways.

[Anonymous]

Good description.  I didnt really think I did anything too wrong (except a judgement call as to whether to swerve.

I actually had a few miliseconds to think about what you guys have said about these sort of things (thing about what you where doing to lose it, and stop doing it).  So I held on tight a and straight with the steering and did very little with the throttle and kept well away from the brake.

Believe me, I crapped it!, but it is a very important lesson on how quickly the 2 can reach its limit with the unexpected.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe you guys don't come out of shape more often.  Maybe I'm just too reckless, but I love it sideways.

We konw that - your speaking to the guy that was behind you at the Chelmsford meet when you were in the black MK2 turbo... sideways round almost every corner you were!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[Anonymous]

LOL, yeah I was at the back and all I could hear was his tyres

[Anonymous]

this is exactly why I switched tyres - the car scares the cr@p out of me sometimes!  s:evil: :evil: s:evil:  

but... maybe this is a bit of a hippy karma sort of thing - just confirming that you're doing the right thing by getting rid of your beloved 2? just a thought  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

[aaronjb]

but... maybe this is a bit of a hippy karma sort of thing - just confirming that you're doing the right thing by getting rid of your beloved 2? just a thought  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Nah, it's punishing him for getting rid of it!

Cars aren't just inanimate objects, you know, they have feelings too  s;) s;)  (Well, swearing at mine always seemed to fix it!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

[markiii]

this is exactly why I switched tyres - the car scares the cr@p out of me sometimes!  s:evil: :evil: s:evil:  
quote]

I'm not exactly the smoothest of drivers but one thing this car will teach you is that smooth is good. if you unsettle it, be prepared it may bite.

thats why it's more rewarding to drive than your average numb fast hatch. Though I suppose with most FWD, drive isn't really the right description, your just sort of along for the ride.

[Peter Laborne]

Looks like bad luck is around as we are getting rid of the 2' at the end of the 2. Thought I would post about my sh*t myself moment, as a warning, or maybe so you can tell me what I "should" have done.

You missed it....my, my....the boy done well   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I assumed that hitting this at 80mph would do some damage, so I swerved back into the right hand lane...thats obviously where I went horribly wrong?.

Much still you have to learn young Jedi. Choice of words you need be carefull in choosing. State you did that you swerved. Be gentle on your Roadster you must and in control you will stay. Feel, snatch not, and to you it will come.

The whole situation has made me quite glad to get rid really, these where dry sunny conditions (albeit cold) and I am seriously suprised that an emergency manouver would unbalence the car quite so considerbly.

Remember that even though the sky is clear and sunny, the road is dry and you have nice warm tyres, there is lots of grit, oil and other cr*p that doesn't wash away. Also the actual road surface temperature will be just above freezing and this is why it can appear 'slippery'.

[GSB]

I've had a few "moments" like these myself. But I no longer worry about them too much, as once you've experienced a few of them, you come to realise that the MR2 is quite stable on the limit as long as the driver doesn't make any stupid moves. A gentle backing off to a neutral throttle position is generally all it takes to reign it back in. In contrast to several other RWD heaps I've owned, that would gladly spit you backwards into a hedge for the fun of it, the 2 seems to have quite a knack for self preservation  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[juansolo]

The whole situation has made me quite glad to get rid really, these where dry sunny conditions (albeit cold) and I am seriously suprised that an emergency manouver would unbalence the car quite so considerbly.

It you think you'll be safer with a raft of driver aids and front wheel drive then go for it.

Alternatively get some driver training and learn to deal with situations like these.  The car really does do as it's told.  It's just that a diet of FWD cars and ever more electronic driver aids, which may have made Harriet/Bob who runs their Micra to the shops safer, get in the way of what the car is actually doing.  

Natuaral reaction in a FWD car when understeering is to lift the throttle or brake.  Doing that in an old school hot hatch like a Pug or a Golf will result in the backend of the car trying to pass the front.  Do it in a modern car and they have soooo much understeer dialed into them that it'll just carry on going straight on until the front snaps back into line.

Don't even get me started on things like traction control and to a degree ABS, all of which move the modulation of the throttle/brake to the electronic domain.  Allowing you to simply plant your foot on either pedal and let the system sort it out.

I say bring back carbs, no power steering, no servo assistance on brakes.  Force you to drive the car and put the *feel* back into it.  Luckily the Mr2 isn't completely numbed (though it could do without power steering) and I can understand the addition of ABS on modern cars is pretty much a neccessity these days.  But it still is very communicative.  All you've got to do is learn to interpret what the car is telling you and react accordingly and instinctively.

There was a similar discussion on the Elise boards that the Mk1 Elise was dangerous and should come with a warning about it's dangerous handling.  Which is of course, complete b*****ks.  People are just not used to there being nothing between you and the car to help you out when you run out of talent.



Whoa!  Went off on a bit of a tangent there!

[Anonymous]

Solo,

On 99% of times of the times, I would agree with you on most counts (we think alike!), but I have to say with your measures, only a few people would understand and benefit from what you suggest.

Getting rid of driver aids for the VAST majority of people would be a disaster waiting to happen with the increase in car capabilities and power over the most recent years. Most don't drive their cars like we do. They are machines to get from A-B and that is it. The aids are there purely to get the average driver out of a situation that might occur on the VERY rare occasions. These people would never buy and Elise or a 2 for that matter, so I agree that dumbing down these cars is stupid. We want them as raw as possible to have fun with. But other cars should, for the most drivers in my opinion, should have as many driver gadgets on them as possible. 25 years ago, they weren't needed cos cars just weren't fast enough (although they did handle badly). Nowadays, Joe Bloggs wants safety, comfort and luxury and the ability to get from one place to the other without getting hurt. Bringing back carbs, removing driver aids and getting back to basics would be brilliant for the enthusiasts like us, but you can't do it across the board...........

[aaronjb]

Natuaral reaction in a FWD car when understeering is to lift the throttle or brake.  Doing that in an old school hot hatch like a Pug or a Golf will result in the backend of the car trying to pass the front.

Been there, done that  s:D s:D  Lots of fun, too! (That was in a Renault, but they had identical rear suspension to the Pugs, classic French torsion bar setup) Think I worried the Merc next to me a bit, though  s;) s;)

Do it in a modern car and they have soooo much understeer dialed into them that it'll just carry on going straight on until the front snaps back into line.

I do that too, every time I pick up a Yaris/Corolla courtesy car  s;) s;)  Usually at the first corner I come to, when I think I'm still in the MR2.

I say bring back carbs, no power steering, no servo assistance on brakes.

I think that'd result in a very large number of people wrapping themselves around trees, these days..  s:( s:(  Roads would be clearer, mind  s;) s;)

I must admit I did rather like the traction control no my 300ZX (RaceLogic fully adjustable setup) - though by the time I had it fitted, I'd learnt to drive the car without needing electronics to 'save' me. Did give me a nice warm fuzzy feeling knowing it was there to (hopefully, didn't work 100% for some people) save me if I did make a complete mess of things mid-corner.

Never fitted it to my second 300ZX though (which was a manual, the first was an.. ahem.. erm.. auto), despite the odd scary moment - 2nd gear, damp road, straight line.. wheee.. sideways.. heh  s:) s:)

Anyway.. [slaps wrists] that's enough OT from me!

[GSB]

Getting rid of driver aids for the VAST majority of people would be a disaster waiting to happen with the increase in car capabilities and power over the most recent years....

...Bringing back carbs, removing driver aids and getting back to basics would be brilliant for the enthusiasts like us, but you can't do it across the board...........

Whilst removing all these driver aids would now be a disaster in the making, I'm of the opinion that if you cant control a car without them you shouldn't be driving in the first place. In fact there is a school of thought that all these driver aids are counter-productive. In part becasue they are removing the notion from peoples minds that they are piloting 1 or 2 tonnes of metal at speeds the human body wasnt designed for. People dont seem to realise anymore that driving is inherently dangerous.

All these safety aids and electronics are very-very good, but the very fact that they are there makes people lazy. They dont develop the skills required to bail out of danger and have no idea why they got into the dangerous situation in the first place. The extremely dangerous pastime of driving a car has now been made so easy that anyone can do it. Hence you have people who have no idea of the physics invloved in what they are doing, controlling a very dangerous machine. To my mind the most dangerous drivers out there are the ones that have absolutley no clue as to how and why their car does the things it does.

There is also evidence that people like to live with a certain level of percieved risk, in order to add an element of excitment to thier lives. That's why some people will happily ride a motorcycle through london in the rush hour and others consider it almost certain suicide.

The problem is that safety aids and airbags and big soft dashboards etc. subconciously reduce that level of risk, so people drive in a "riskier" manner to compensate. If this is true, (and you have to admit it makes alot of sense) then if you were to make it compulsory to have an 8 inch spike in the middle of the steering wheel, you'd all but eradicate car crashes overnight.

[Anonymous]

GSB, I couldn't agree more........in principle!!! problem is, in practice, pretty much 99% of the population just don't care HOW they get there as long as they do. They don't care HOW the car works. They don't care about learning how to DRIVE the car and control it. People want an easy life (I totally agree on the lazy outlook of people). With todays litigious society, car manufatureres are nannying the driver more and more as they realise that they could either be deemed at fault of something disasterous happens (which pisses me off!!!! Why is everyone looking to blame SOMEONE. Why not look at yourselves and see why you are in that sitauation. God, it makes me angry......anything for bloody money.....). Or, it is purely down to that said lazyness.

I want to drive a car and therefor we have to look at the cars that we can DRIVE to have fun. More people are coming back that way, but cars are still a mode of transport and nothing else to millions of people and if the car can help them out of a situation they can't handle themselves, then I can see that only as a good thing.

I don't want the aids personally, but then I am into my driving, as are most of the people on this forum. If it was an open forum, then I would probably see a very different attitude. You mak a hell of a lot of sense GSB and I couldn't agree more, but its not a real world scenario. Cars HAVE got better as time as gone on and the electronics was the only way to go really........

[MRMike]

Whilst I agree some of the latest technologies have 'numbed' the feeling of driving a car, could you not also say that some technologies have enhanced it?  The technology on a Skyline R34 GTR wasn't conceived to keep you out of a ditch but it will make you quicker.  At no point do the electronic aids intervene and cut power etc, they merely exagerate the drivers inputs.  

The new 'active steering' on the 5 series is another case in point, the steering on that is leaps and bounds better weighted than that of the old 5 series.  Admittedly it wouldn't need it if it didn't have power steering in the first place, but in contemporary times thats never going to happen on a bug car like the 5.  What i'm trying t say is that some modern technologies are seeminly putting the 'feel' back into driving...

Admittedly it's artificial feel.. but think about this dilemma in the future (real v artificial real) when your in your 'holodeck' and Cat deeley slides onto the sofa beside you do you really care if it's real or artificially created??   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Personally I don't think i'd mind..plus i don't think the misses would be able to say anything either..  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[juansolo]

I'm with GSB.  Replace the airbags with spikes and let Darwin sort 'em out   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Though yep, sadly Mr Woodward is also correct, they let anyone have a license these days and (as in everything today) the market is catering to the lowest numpty for fear that hurt themselves and sue the s**t out of them.  Which given the number of numpties on the road I can see the need for such cosseting vehicles.

It's just the false sense of security driving around what they percieve as an armoured car (4x4) or Volvo, with PAS, ABS, PSC, TC, ETC on it that scares me.

I also hope that the pure cars don't get legislated off the road also by this nanny state of ours.  It would be a sad day when the likes of Caterham have to stop making the 7 because it'll hurt if you run someone over it it... (Duh!  and this *is* likely to happen).

[markiii]

when the cars hit the pedestrians on the footpath they have something to complain about.

Otherwise the pedestrians should look where the hell they are going.

maybe we should legislate the pedestrians where michilin man suits so they won't damage my car when they jump in front of it.