My Blue 2002 MR2 - Meeerrk's Track car build (LOCKED)

[Leethesparky]

Gutting mate... just read your posts.

But chin up, you will get it sorted one way or another. Best way has got to be rebuilding your engine. At least you will know it's done and reliable. Find all the parts yourself over a bit of time then you are just paying for Patricks labour later.
spreading the cost a little won't hurt as much but will be worth it for a reliable engine.

Scott...what's wrong with yours? I keep seeing posts about its broken. Is it serious mate?

[Leethesparky]

Let's not get into mud slinging here.

Isn't that the route we went down when he started blaming brand new parts too? Let's face it, this swap hasn't been good from the moment it was done.

Ive been an engineer for 24 years, I am very good at my job and have learnt a lot of things over that time.

The most important being that there is a big difference between new parts and used parts... If I fit old parts to machinery, I can make it work, but I can not say how long for.. The person doing the work can NOT be blamed for an unforeseeable mechanical failure.
This car has had an engine replacement and not an engine rebuild. They are 2 completely different things. This is the first thing that needs to be correctly understood to know where to draw the line of responsibility of the person doing the swap.

Mark has an unfortunate situation where the engine that has been professionally fitted (NOT rebuilt) has failed.

I think all comments on this subject should be focused towards solving a component failure to help mark find the cheapest and most reliable solution to a problem which is his responsability as he supplied the parts.

[ChrisGB]

Let's not get into mud slinging here.

Isn't that the route we went down when he started blaming brand new parts too? Let's face it, this swap hasn't been good from the moment it was done.

Exactly. Some folks on here seem to be keen to criticise others work without reading / knowing all the facts. From my moderator point of view, I don't want to be locking another 2zz thread, so keep it constructive and relevant. It seems there are tensions here, possibly baggage from other forums, I really don't know, but we don't want it aired here.

Objectively and back on topic, if I where fitting a used 2zz in my car with a view to using it on track, I would probably replace the thermostat and definitely the oil pump as a matter of course. The engine not going lift is unlikely to be oil pressure related, it was established that it worked once the engine was up to temperature.

It is really gutting when your pride and joy has problems like this. When modifying, you are stepping away from the manufacturers quality assurance and engineering processes, so you will be in a world of variables many of which are uncharted. Chuck in used parts of uncertain history, the risk grows exponentially. Easy to blame whoever built it, but given the engine's had a previous refurb, we really can't say  what caused the failure.

[Anonymous]

Let's not get into mud slinging here.

Isn't that the route we went down when he started blaming brand new parts too? Let's face it, this swap hasn't been good from the moment it was done.

Ive been an engineer for 24 years, I am very good at my job and have learnt a lot of things over that time.

The most important being that there is a big difference between new parts and used parts... If I fit old parts to machinery, I can make it work, but I can not say how long for.. The person doing the work can NOT be blamed for an unforeseeable mechanical failure.
This car has had an engine replacement and not an engine rebuild. They are 2 completely different things. This is the first thing that needs to be correctly understood to know where to draw the line of responsibility of the person doing the swap.

Mark has an unfortunate situation where the engine that has been professionally fitted (NOT rebuilt) has failed.

I think all comments on this subject should be focused towards solving a component failure to help mark find the cheapest and most reliable solution to a problem which is his responsability as he supplied the parts.

I agree with you.

Sensible measures were taken to "safeguard" the engine; complete timing chain kit,  new Toyota oil pump, water pump, thermostat, clutch, flywheel, baffled sump.

HOWEVER, the engine wasn't stripped and/or rebuilt by Patrick. His responsibility was to fit the engine.

The history of the engine is as follows; Celica was purchased by an mr2roc forum member who was going to put the engine in their car. They had it delivered to Patrick's workshop. Patrick drove the celica and all seemed ok, so it was removed and the car scrapped.
The engine was stored at Patrick's for a while. The owner changed their mind and contacted me to see if i wanted to buy the engine and have Patrick fit it.
That is when I came to meet Patrick and asked him to fit it for me.

So although Patrick had the engine and from his limited testing, said it was good, he is not to be held responsible for the failure.

I think it was coincidence; I wonder if the engine was a fresh bodged rebuild to get it running to sell on, or something similar (wrong size shells, for example) ?

We don't know if those couple of hundred miles are all the engine has done since being rebuilt, in any car.

My only hope at the moment is that I can get some help with the cost from the previously mentioned forum member. As previously stated, it will be a good will / moral decision for them.

I something similar (situation wise) happened to to me once;

I sold a car (Seat Leon Cupra) to a work colleague. The actual day they bought it, I got a call from him; the clutch had gone!
Turns out the clutch plate came apart and took out the flywheel too. I sell all cars as sold as seen and there was no sign anything was going wrong while I had owned the car. Anyway, I took the car to my preferred mechanic and had the clutch and flywheel (and slave cylinder to be on the safe side) replaced at my cost ~£900 (sold the car to him for £6000) . Sometimes things don't go to plan, but it's how we deal with those situations that shapes us.

[Anonymous]

As Patrick mentioned; oil pressure gauge was fitted at filter sandwich plate location.

Oil pressure was monitored as much as possible and pressure was excellent whenever checked

[Anonymous]

I can't disagree it has been a disaster. Total disaster. It has so far cost me about double what I expected. And that's all before the engine let go.

But, and I know we aren't going to agree on this, so I'm not arguing as such, but, if you look at the circumstances of the issues, I like to look at the facts and break them down before pointing the finger...

1) Lift; it was working when Patrick drove it. I even asked him to drive it round for the day rather than just a single test drive, and it WAS going into lift. It was an intermittent fault which I managed to recreate the scenario. This isn't good an I would have preferred Patrick to find the issue. But he didn't know it was there and so how can we expect people to look for faults, where do you stop?

2) Engine failure. It was checked (by driving the donor car) before hand, and it was running well. When it was put in the mr2, we both commented how smooth and quiet the engine was.

Patrick has done a load of these swaps and quite often they don't even check the engine. In fact the swap before mine, they just had the engine delivered and put it straight in the MR2. That one is still running fine. If I would have taken the engine to Patrick and he fitted it, he would have absolutely no responsibility.

[Anonymous]

I'd really appreciate it if this thread doesn't get locked like the "all things 2zz" thread.

Let's keep it to fact rather than opinion on the how's and whys.

Fact; I need to rob a bank, or a post office will do. Anyone game?  s:D s:D

[Jrichards20]

Oh Mark! What a shame! My 2pence, you have come so far with it, by stopping or getting a new engine is completely wasting your money as its all just down the drain. While if you rebuild the current engine, you know where you stand, you have spend more money than you ever thought you were going to do, but you have the final product. An asset, that can keep providing to your thrills at least bring you joy, instead of nothing but bad memories.

I doubt there is anything that I can do to help, with my lack of mechanical knowledge, lack of Mr2 and lack of parts, I really have no use! But if you want to rob a bank, I'm in  s:) s:)

[phaeton]

I really feel your pain Mark, I know that physically sick feeling when things don't go right, it does ease with time, as to what to do is a problem, can the crank be ground again? If so that is as likely to be the cheapest option.

The 1zz crank will not fit as the stroke is different

[Wabbitkilla]

Hard work Mark,  I think much has already been said about using second hand engines. It's a risk you need to accept and you did the absolute sensible things replacing what you did.
From my experience the ocv's used for vvti and in this case lift die with age. One minute they're working fine, the next not. Maybe that time sitting unused didn't do the lift ocv say favours.

The big end could have been on its way already and alas hadn't been checked. If Patrick can be accused of anything it is only being thoroughly professional and good at engineering.

It highlights really what I've said all along, don't think a 2zz us the cure to a 1zz. It's simply a different engine that's been used and has a history you don't know 100% about.

So what's next? Regrind and new big ends? Really depends on your budget but that's the minimum needs doing imho.

[1979scotte]

I'd really appreciate it if this thread doesn't get locked like the "all things 2zz" thread.

Let's keep it to fact rather than opinion on the how's and whys.

Fact; I need to rob a bank, or a post office will do. Anyone game?  s:D s:D

I well up for a bank job mate or a diamond heist.
Can we use the 350 for the get away?
Decent boot on it?
You've got my number.

[1979scotte]

I doubt there is anything that I can do to help, with my lack of mechanical knowledge, lack of Mr2 and lack of parts, I really have no use! But if you want to rob a bank, I'm in  s:) s:)

You could give him the 2zz out of your elise.  s;) s;)

[andyroo104]

I'm in for the bank job too,can we move discussions to pm. :-) :-) :-)

[Wabbitkilla]

[MOD] Just locked the thread while I did some tidying up. Please keep to the topic. [/MOD]

[tommyzoom99]

Ohhh mate no way that is gutting, i feel for you.

i would rebuild the whole engine mate at least then you'll be left with a solid engine for another 100k, grantted i wont be cheap but a chance to make it a better engine i.e better cams etc

cheers tommy

[jonty]

I'd say get an unopened 2zz in there ASAP, then do the rebuild - it'll be about £600 for the engine, and keeps the car rolling...

[MrStev3]

 s:o s:o  no way
IM so sorry to hear this
Just been catching up on this now

[frootloops]

I'll be very careful with what I say here as it's incredibly easy to rock the boat around this neck of the woods... and nobody wants to see more threads locked.

If I were you I'd buy another donor car drop the engine and whack it in the mr2 yourself (you've got a garage anyway so it'll only cost you the engine hoist). Things like the modified dipstick and the engine mount have already been done so it will be an easy swap and then you can spend some time breaking the donor car to recoupe some of the extra money you've invested... what you do about the engine you already have is not for me to say.

[shnazzle]

Just read this. This was one of my favourite threads so I'm gutted for you to see it has ended this way.
Having said that, I truly hope it isn't the end. You've spent so much time on it, and money and gone to great lengths to get it as you want.
If there was such thing as a car MRI, we'd all have less issues with our cars. Unfortunately tearing a block apart just for the sake of checking it out in detail is not exactly a quick and easy job that anybody in their right mind would consider doing, unless funds were plentiful.

I do understand that money doesn't grow on trees though, and if you do take a break to build up a piggy bank again, please remember that it's an inspiration to many other members on here to see work like this! So keep at it!!

[wotugonado]

Oh what a sickener! thats really really unlucky mate   s:( s:(  

I had 2 years of problems with my turbo installation due to it being a used kit, not quite on your scale, but i must admit to feeling quite p1ssed off with it all at times and wondered whether to carry on or not. All i can say is if its want you really want then finish the car, they tend to become a labour of love/moneypit as theyre getting older anyway. If its a keeper id rebuild your engine, at least then your not  gambling on another unknown engine.

[Wabbitkilla]

If I were you I'd buy another donor car drop the engine and whack it in the mr2 yourself (you've got a garage anyway so it'll only cost you the engine hoist). Things like the modified dipstick and the engine mount have already been done so it will be an easy swap and then you can spend some time breaking the donor car to recoupe some of the extra money you've invested... what you do about the engine you already have is not for me to say.

That's actually hugely sensible, after all all the hard work has been done for you.
Though I appreciate you also need the time, space, and energy to do that. I know what it's like for things to go wrong and feel as if just setting the whole job on fire, but stick with it and it'll be worth it when you're driving along roof down.

[Anonymous]

Patrick has offered to put another engine in the car if I source one, so I wouldn't need to do it myself.

It's a good idea but my worry is that I buy another lemon  s:( s:(

[Paul1087]

If I were you I'd buy another donor car drop the engine and whack it in the mr2 yourself (you've got a garage anyway so it'll only cost you the engine hoist). Things like the modified dipstick and the engine mount have already been done so it will be an easy swap and then you can spend some time breaking the donor car to recoupe some of the extra money you've invested... what you do about the engine you already have is not for me to say.

That's actually hugely sensible, after all all the hard work has been done for you.
Though I appreciate you also need the time, space, and energy to do that. I know what it's like for things to go wrong and feel as if just setting the whole job on fire, but stick with it and it'll be worth it when you're driving along roof down.

Agreed,

DIY it. Get some mates over, beer money labour, sunny weekend. jobs a good un'

well, might be a bit more difficult than that, but certainly doable.

[Anonymous]

I'll see how much it'll cost to rebuild the engine I already have, once I know how much that will be I can weigh up the cost of doing that or buying another engine.

[vinp182]

Gutted for you dude   s:( s:(  

I'll pm you when I get home