Immobiliser won't disarm

[mocelet]

I came to my wife's '2 this morning to find the battery was completely flat. There wasn't even enough juice to flash the red LED on the dashboard.

I hooked up the jump leads to my car and the alarm started flashing the hazards, thankfully the sounder has been removed by a previous owner so I didn't wake the neighbours, but it wouldn't un-immobilise. I concluded that this must be because it was on jumps leads, so took the battery out to put it on charge.

Fastforward to this evening. I put the battery in again (now fully charged) and reconnected it. The hazards start flashing again, but I shut the boot lid and they eventually stopped. But the immobiliser was still refusing to disarm.

One possible confounding point is that the car has an additional Toad immobiliser installed alongside the standard one, but that will not disarm either. The usual sequence is to disarm the standard immobiliser and unlock using the button on the key, then press the button on the Toad fob to disarm that one.

The car was working fine when it was last used about 4 weeks ago.

Any thoughts as to what might be wrong?

[jinxedkitten]

Your 2 is lonely and wants attention!
What is a Toad immobilized? (and don't tell me it keeps amphibians stationery  s;) s;)  )

[MartinC]

Your 2 is lonely and wants attention!
What is a Toad immobilized? (and don't tell me it keeps amphibians stationery  s;) s;)  )

It's an immobilizer made by a company called Toad.   m http://toadalarm.com/product-category/car-immobilisers/ m

[jinxedkitten]

Ahh gotcha, never looked much at extra security, my other cars weren't worth nicking! I'm afraid I can't be much help except to wish you good luck  s:( s:(

[mocelet]

Yes, an immobiliser made by Toad, not an amphibian prison. No idea why it is fitted as the standard one is still fitted and works well. Too well in fact!

I know it wants attention. My Smart cost me £1000 in bills last month, I think the '2 wants money spending on it now!

[jinxedkitten]

Ouch, that is expensive. Hmm perhaps uninstalling the Toad nay help, I have no idea how big a job that might be though.

[mocelet]

I have thought about de-toading it, but like you I have no idea how complicated/expensive that would be. I wouldn't do it myself as there is every chance I would end up with a permanently immobilsed car.

I thought I would plug my OBD code reader in to see if it was telling me the problem, but there were no lights on the OBD box and no connection on my phone, so I started checking fuses (in the dark with a torch), and it looks like AM2 and the 100A alternator fuse are both blown. I guess they must have gone during the attempted jump start. I might have a replacement for AM2 in the shed, but the 100A beastie will need a trip to somewhere tomorrow to get a replacement!

Any more thoughts greatly appreciated.

[Wabbitkilla]

Not a good idea to try and jump start these cars on totally flat batteries. It's been tried before and resulted in the 100A fuse blowing, plus other damage. Some have got away with it but generally have some charge left in the battery, it can be expensive.

Best to remove the battery and charge it.

For now just sounds like replace that fuse and give it a go.

[mocelet]

Yes, I would agree with that idea... now.

Hunted all over today for a 100A fuse, but no-one had one in stock, including Mr T, so have ordered a fuse from eBay and borrowed a 63A breaker from work to use as a temporary fuse while diagnosing/fixing this weekend.

The blades of the 100A fuse stayed in the fusebox when I tried to remove the fuse this morning, so I think they are welded in   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  
Any ideas on how to remove them? Current plan is to try wiggling them from the top with a pair of pliers, or remove and dismantle the fuse box to dremel them off from below if wiggling fails. Has anyone had to do this before?

[Markb]

Is the fuse screwed in to place?...never done a 2 but i've done other cars  with a 100amp PAL fuse...they are fixed in place with 2 small bolts/ screws.

[mocelet]

Is the fuse screwed in to place?...never done a 2 but i've done other cars  with a 100amp PAL fuse...they are fixed in place with 2 small bolts/ screws.

The fuse has straight legs, but with holes, so yes, it might be screwed in. At least that should be easier to dismantle than if it is welded!

[Markb]

I know with the bent leg type the main wire is bolted on to the fuse legs through the holes.......i'm guessing that maybe the same.

[mocelet]

Markb, it looks like you are right, I found instructions for a Toyota 4runner here which appears to be the same fuse in a similar fuse box, and fuse box disassembly to get to some 10mm nuts looks like it is the way to go.

I will take some pictures as I do it in case it is worth writing up for the reference section.

[mocelet]

OK, 100A fuse replaced.

Here are some words and pictures showing the process. Back, front, left and right should be interpreted relative to the car. All pictures are clickable to see a larger version.
Apologies for the dirty engine bay and the wobbly annotations on the pictures!

Remove the fusebox cover in the engine bay first as this gives better access to the negative battery terminal. Disconnect the negative (left) terminal first, then the positive (right) terminal. Release the battery clamp and remove the battery.


Remove the 10mm bolt at the back of the fuse box, and lift the fuse box straight up, off the clip at the front left.


There are 7 clips around the fuse box that hold the wiring cover on the bottom. Release these and remove the wiring cover. I found it easiest to release them one at a time and gently pull the cover off a little to prevent each clip refastening. These pictures show 5 of the clips with the cover attached, but all 7 are visible in the third picture of the removed cover.


You now have access to the bolts that hold the fuse in place. The one of the left needs an 8mm socket, the one on the right needs a 10mm socket. I found that my 1/2" socket set didn't have an 8mm and the 10mm was too fat, so I used a screwdriver type mini-socket set.



The original fuse in my car needed the bolts to be fully removed as the legs had holes in the ends. The replacement fuse I had has slots, so the bolts would only need to be loosened off to remove or refit the fuse. So try loosening the bolts a little first (as this means you are less likely to lose the bolts), and only remove them if loosening them does not work.


Replacement is, as they say, the reverse of removal:
- Fit the new fuse
- Tighten (or refit) the fastening bolts
- Replace the wiring cover, ensuring that all the clips are lined up
- Push the fuse box back onto the clip at the front left
- Refit the 10mm bolt at the back of the fuse box
- Replace any other fuses that may have blown
- Refit the battery
- Reconnect the positive (right) terminal
- Reconnect the negative (left) terminal
- Replace the lid of the fuse box

[mocelet]

However, having replaced the 100A fuse and fuse AM2, and the car came to life, with the Toyota immobiliser and central locking now working!

However the Toad immobiliser would not disarm. More investigation showed that the Radio 1 fuse in the fuse panel in the end of the dashboard was also blown. I replaced this and it blew straight away. According to the wiring diagram, only the radio should be connected to this fuse, so I disconnected the radio and it still blew the fuse. I suspect that the Toad alarm uses this as its permanent supply and that the jump start has fried the Toad unit, so I am going to have to get it removed. I peered around under the dash and I cannot find anything obvious to undo the installation. The only suspicious wire was a red/white wire with white connectors under the dashboard fusebox (above the passenger footwell). Picture below. Is this standard or something that has been added to the wiring?

[Wabbitkilla]

Well, that is good news mostly, well done for your perseverance. The radio harness is a very useful place to obtain power for aftermarket kit.

[Markb]

Just out of interest what way did you connect the jump leads.........i have jumped mine a couple of times......+ and - to the terminals on the good battery.......+ to the + on the dead battery - to an earth point on the engine,never had any issues jump starting tbh......fit and remove one lead at a time to avoid shorting.

[1979scotte]

Just out of interest what way did you connect the jump leads.........i have jumped mine a couple of times......+ and - to the terminals on the good battery.......+ to the + on the dead battery - to an earth point on the engine,never had any issues jump starting tbh......fit and remove one lead at a time to avoid shorting.

I must agree with wabbit on this.
Haven't jump started a car since a mechanic (who was fixing my immobiliser on a merc funny enough) told me that it can cause problems with modern electronics.

[Wabbitkilla]

Even connecting the leads and leaving the engine in the donor car running for something like 20 minutes before trying to start is a good idea.

[MartinC]

I'm glad I read this thread, can I assume that this is also the case for using jumpstart portable units?

[Wabbitkilla]

Always best to get charge into the battery before trying to start.

[mocelet]

I usually connect -ve lead first, then +ve. We used to have a 1990 Mini, so lots of jump starting was required  s:) s:)

 I did get a mighty spark when I hooked them up this time, so something was drawing a huge current. No idea what it was, but it was enough to pop the 100A fuse.

I still don't know whether the ECU etc are whole and undamaged. That will only become clear once I can de-Toad the car...

Any thoughts on that apparently extra red/white wire under the dashboard?

[MartinC]

What model of Toad immobiliser is it?  Do you have any photos of the control unit?

[mocelet]

Not yet. I thought all the smarts were in the sounder unit in the engine bay, but thinking about it I realised last night that there must be a control box behind the dash somewhere. I will follow the wire back from the status LED and see if I can find the box.

How hard is it to remove the dash on a '2 if I need to get better access?

[phaeton]

You should always connect the +ve lead before the -ve

Any chance you could have got the leads the wrong way around?

Alan...