Engine turns over but won't start

[ducatiross]

Hi All,

I had a flat battery on my '2 last week, so I jump started it and left it running. After 4 hours, I turned it off and closed the garage door.

Went to start it yesterday, and the engine spins over fast, but absolutely no cylinder fires up - not once ! So either I've not got any fuel or no spark.

The petrol tank says it is half-full. Even after many attempts at starting, there is not a hint or smell of petrol, so I can't be flooding the engine.

So, my basic deduction says there is no fuel getting to the engine.

Would you expect the long stationary idling of 4 hours made the fuel pump break ? Any other ideas, like a relay, fuse or the like ?

I get no engine warning lights to indicate there is any problem. Haven't connected my OBD reader yet.

Any thoughts ?

[shnazzle]

Hi All,

I had a flat battery on my '2 last week, so I jump started it and left it running. After 4 hours, I turned it off and closed the garage door.

Went to start it yesterday, and the engine spins over fast, but absolutely no cylinder fires up - not once ! So either I've not got any fuel or no spark.

The petrol tank says it is half-full. Even after many attempts at starting, there is not a hint or smell of petrol, so I can't be flooding the engine.

So, my basic deduction says there is no fuel getting to the engine.

Would you expect the long stationary idling of 4 hours made the fuel pump break ? Any other ideas, like a relay, fuse or the like ?

I get no engine warning lights to indicate there is any problem. Haven't connected my OBD reader yet.

Any thoughts ?

you left it idling for 4hrs? Crikey  s:) s:)
Shouldn't do it any hard though I would imagine.
EFI fuses look ok?

[ducatiross]

It was VERY flat !!! Charged the battery nicely !

Not had time to check the fuse, but have looked here  m http://www.autofuseboxdiagram.com/5139- ... x-diagram/ m  for fuse diagram so will check EFI1 and 2 fuses tonight.

[jonbill]

I think you have to start testing and eliminating possible causes. If fuses and codes are ok, maybe check there is a spark. Easystart is a good test for no fuel.

[Carolyn]

Imobiliser?

[ducatiross]

I've done some more investigation.

The fuses for EFI1 and EFI2 seem ok (I have swapped them and still no success). IGN fuse also seems OK.

My OBDII reader showed no codes logged at all.

I've taken all the plugs out, and checked one with it held against the metal top of the engine whilst the engine turned over but I got no spark. Despite turning the engine over for a long spin, I could not smell any petrol fumes even with the plugs out.

The plug gap looked huge to me, but measured 1.2mm, which isn't so far from the 1.1mm it seems is the correct setting. There was a small V shape in the tip of the electrodes, but the overall condition and colour looked spot on. However, I have ordered a new set of plugs just in case.

The keys still lock and unlock the doors electronically, so I assume that the immobiliser is not at fault, but don't know how to check this.

So, I'll put the new plugs in, try some EasyStart and see what happens.

[shnazzle]

God this is giving me flashbacks of our stupid useless Celica...

[mrzwei]

You need to eliminate the crank position sensor. Unless this tells the ecu that the engine is turning over then it won't fuel or spark or throw any codes. It is prone to some problems because of its position. There is quite a lot on here, you just need to check it out.
This assumes it's not the immobilizer.

[Carolyn]

I've been thinking about this one.  Engine idled for four hours.  Was the engine cover open or closed?  The engine may have kept itself at the right temperature, but the engine compartment may well have got pretty hot.  A melted connector?

[Joesson]

I could not smell any petrol fumes even with the plugs out.

A straw to grasp at maybe, but as Carolyn says  all would have got very hot in the engine compartment.
This heat would have been there for some time after the engine was shut down, could that have caused a vapour lock in the fuel line?

[ducatiross]

Mr zwei - i'll do some research on the crank position sensor and check that out.

Carolyn / Joeson - yes, it probably wasn't a good idea to leave it running that long ! Engine cover was closed too. I've had a good look around and can't see any melting plastic bits. I thought about vapour lock, but didn't know how to manually pump some fuel round.

Of course, it could be that the fuel gauge is lying about being half-full and I just don't have any petrol left !!! I did try to put more in but as with all problems, you try one easy thing and end up needing to fix 5 others first !

Will do more this weekend.

[Carolyn]

Once it's cooled down, a vapour lock will go away.  It's a self priming system so there's nothing to bleed or pump.

Have you disconnected the battery and left it for an hour and tried again?  A reset might get her going.  Otherwise, something that shuts it all down (crankshaft position sensor, immobliser....) has given up the ghost.

Four hours with the cover down... lesson learned.

[ducatiross]

Once it's cooled down, a vapour lock will go away.  It's a self priming system so there's nothing to bleed or pump.

Have you disconnected the battery and left it for an hour and tried again?  A reset might get her going.  Otherwise, something that shuts it all down (crankshaft position sensor, immobliser....) has given up the ghost.

Four hours with the cover down... lesson learned.

Too right ! I am suitably embarrassed !   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  

I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes and tried again, but same result. New plugs have just arrived so I will fit those then see what's next.

[Carolyn]

After the fuses, I can only think of the crankshaft position sensor and the immobiliser.  The two things that kill both sparks and injectors.  Anyone else have an idea?
(edit). There's a fusible link in  the fusebox in the engine compartment.  Try bridging accress it and see if she starts?

[shnazzle]

Sudden loss of compression?
Again this is awfully reminiscent of our celica. Wouldn't start even after crank and cam sensor changes.
But definitely worth checking them. They can be checked manually as well with a multimeter. I can pass on the resistance figures if you're doing that. Saves having to get replacements

[jvanzyl]

Just a thought here - have you considered taking the injectors out and making sure there is pressure in the fuel rail? Some should pour out when you remove the rail from the top of the injectors...

It's just that the fuse (for the pump) could have gone & if you're not getting any smell of petrol then that could possibly indicated that fuel isn't actually getting into the cylinders? Apologies if this is way off...

[Wabbitkilla]

I had a similar problem after rebuilding the engine, there was a heap of air trapped in the fuel rail. Released the pressure by taking it off and reseating it.

You have to remember it was a different situation to this, the fuel rail had been off for days while we rebuilt the engine.

[ducatiross]

Sudden loss of compression?
Again this is awfully reminiscent of our celica. Wouldn't start even after crank and cam sensor changes.
But definitely worth checking them. They can be checked manually as well with a multimeter. I can pass on the resistance figures if you're doing that. Saves having to get replacements

Thanks shnazzle - resistance figures would be helpful. I've checked out some Youtube vids that show it should be about 2000 ohms ?

[ducatiross]

Just a thought here - have you considered taking the injectors out and making sure there is pressure in the fuel rail? Some should pour out when you remove the rail from the top of the injectors...

It's just that the fuse (for the pump) could have gone & if you're not getting any smell of petrol then that could possibly indicated that fuel isn't actually getting into the cylinders? Apologies if this is way off...

Hi Jvanzyl - I found the fuse diagram but can't spot one for the fuel pump - is it EFI 1 or 2 or another ?

Wabbitkilla - Haven't taken an injector out yet, but will try that if the other checks don't show anything.

[jvanzyl]

Couldnt tell you off the top of my head which one it is...but if in doubt I'd replace them both!

I appreciate it's a faff but I'd honestly check for the presence of fuel in the actual rail...

[shnazzle]

[Topdownman]

You are getting a lot more technical advice above than I can offer but my recent problem;

 l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58281 l

turned out to be a fuse, even though the AA man "checked them all". Could be worth taking the fuses out and cleaning the contacts in case they have oxidised by sitting around maybe?

[ducatiross]

Couldnt tell you off the top of my head which one it is...but if in doubt I'd replace them both!

I appreciate it's a faff but I'd honestly check for the presence of fuel in the actual rail...

Ok, here's a quick update.

Put new spark plugs in - made no difference.

Took off the fuel rail and petrol jetted out - turned over the engine and more petrol came out - so that's one possible cause eliminated !

So, I've left the battery disconnected for 3 hours now and am just about to go out to reconnect and try again.

Thanks for the resistance figures !

[ducatiross]

Hhhmmm. No luck.

Checked all the fuses in the engine bay and none looked blown.

Reconnected the battery, locked and unlocked the car and turned the engine over. Still no firing at all.

A number of you have mentioned the immobiliser but I would have thought that if the keys are able to lock and unlock the car by the buttons, it should be working ? Do you know how I can check, or perhaps totally disconnect the immobiliser ?

After this, I will have to get it towed to my local garage so they can get it on the ramps to check the crank position sensor as I can't get to it.

[cabbydave]

When you turn the ignition on does the flashing red light in the heater controls go off? If it does the immobiliser is being turned off by the key