running rich

Started by mr3(05worldwide), July 5, 2017, 21:12

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mr3(05worldwide)

July 5, 2017, 21:12 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
had the car on emissions and was running at 5% co , jap mr2-s so only has the 2 precat o2 sensors, which incidentally arent working correctly due to a fault with the heater circuit  (po135 & po155). the car was put on the emissions when it was hot and up to temp so it shouldn't require the heater circuit in the sensors functioning at that moment. can the faulty heater circuit be affecting the emissions ? or should i be looking somewhere else, as there are no other codes present when scanned with JOBD.

mr3(05worldwide)

#1
July 5, 2017, 21:13 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
5% co on tick over

shnazzle

#2
July 5, 2017, 21:28 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
When was the last time spark plugs were changed?

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...neutiquam erro.

m1tch

#3
July 5, 2017, 21:33 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
What do the long term and short term fuel trims say?

jonbill

#4
July 5, 2017, 21:38 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "m1tch"What do the long term and short term fuel trims say?
If the fuel trims are ok, I'd be looking at the cat.

mr3(05worldwide)

#5
July 6, 2017, 08:10 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "m1tch"What do the long term and short term fuel trims say?

you'll have to forgive the ignorance here - whats a fuel trim ? and how do i get those ?

jonbill

#6
July 6, 2017, 08:26 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Fuel trims are how the ECU adjusts the mixture from 'standard' depending on what all the sensors tell it.
You can view them with obd2 readers.  Mobile apps like torque and dashcmd coupled with obd dongles will do it for you. There are many threads and posts on which to buy.

shnazzle

#7
July 6, 2017, 09:04 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Hahaha. "What are fuel trims and where can I get them?"
Are you not in the 'trim club? All the cool kids are.


Fuel trims is how your car keeps your cat working effectively and efficiently and also makes sure the car has the correct air to fuel ratio for most efficient burn,mostly when you're tootling about.

It uses the O2 sensors to read how rich or lean the engine is running and trims the fuel up or down accordingly.

Short term always strives to be around 0. Long term adjusts over time to make sure short term can stay around zero. Long term adjusts for aging of components, the environment you live in,etc.

If your long term fuel trims are really low in the negatives,it means the car is constantly trying to reduce fuel. I.e. you're running rich.
And vice versa. Hence the query about your fuel trims.


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...neutiquam erro.

cptspaulding

#8
July 6, 2017, 10:08 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Had similar readings in my 2zz conversion last month. Only one precat (primary) sensor on there. Had a cheapy fitted. No codes.
Got pelters from my mechanic for fitting a cheap sensor, changed it for a genuine Denso sensor. Immediately passed the MOT.
Change the sensors.

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Former owner 2003, 2zz conversion.

stevex

#9
July 6, 2017, 15:01 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "shnazzle"Hahaha. "What are fuel trims and where can I get them?"
Are you not in the 'trim club? All the cool kids are.


Fuel trims is how your car keeps your cat working effectively and efficiently and also makes sure the car has the correct air to fuel ratio for most efficient burn,mostly when you're tootling about.

It uses the O2 sensors to read how rich or lean the engine is running and trims the fuel up or down accordingly.

Short term always strives to be around 0. Long term adjusts over time to make sure short term can stay around zero. Long term adjusts for aging of components, the environment you live in,etc.

If your long term fuel trims are really low in the negatives,it means the car is constantly trying to reduce fuel. I.e. you're running rich.
And vice versa. Hence the query about your fuel trims.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

LOL  s:) :) s:)

I've been obsessing over mine recently, time to let them go for a while.

OP, I would think if you are being told by the ECU that there is a malfunction on your O2 sensors then that should be your first place to look. True, the heater element failure won't result in the O2 sensors heating up quickly at cold start to give an accurate reading, so if up to temp it shouldn't need the heater. However I would argue that if the O2 heaters are faulty, you clearly have an issue with the O2 sensors, or emissions control system. So you should likely be looking at these first.

The best bet would be to get it on a code reader, and see what readings are coming form the O2 sensors, and to make sure your car is using the output correctly from the other sensors (such as Engine coolant temp sensor) and actually going into closed loop when warm, otherwise you will be permanently stuck in 'cold start' condition on open loop.

At this stage though it could be many things - need to take a look at the data (and even then it can be a bit hit and miss!).

mr3(05worldwide)

#10
July 6, 2017, 18:25 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
ok time for a chuckle - i dont have an iphone / smartphone / anything that enables an app   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   and i dont want one either   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    so what are my options as far as taking a look at fuel trims and readings from o2 sensors ? the car is an mr-s so have used a cheap JOBD to asses the engine management light on the dash. i put it on my friends snap on reader and it wouldnt connect.

Carolyn

#11
July 6, 2017, 19:36 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
There is a line of code you can put into torque pro that allows it to read JOBD.  If you Google, say, 'Torque Pro jobd' I think you'll find it with instructions how to do it.  It's a pain, but I did it for my MR S.

Having said all that, looking at the stuff will probably only drive you potty.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

shnazzle

#12
July 6, 2017, 20:12 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
But what is he going to put torque pro on?  s:) :) s:)

If you don't want a phone,even without a SIM card,just for the purposes of Torque, then a standalone diagnostic tool is your only shot. A good one with good live data and jobd can set you back between 70 and 100. And upwards of course
...neutiquam erro.

Carolyn

#13
July 6, 2017, 20:41 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
"But what is he going to put torque pro on?"

Use an old android phone just for the car.  You don't have to use it as a phone?  Personally I like the technophobe attitude. I'm not a phone fan either.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

stevex

#14
July 6, 2017, 23:27 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "Carolyn"There is a line of code you can put into torque pro that allows it to read JOBD.  If you Google, say, 'Torque Pro jobd' I think you'll find it with instructions how to do it.  It's a pain, but I did it for my MR S.

Having said all that, looking at the stuff will probably only drive you potty.


Isn't that the truth!  s:) :) s:)

Sometimes as I've found you can obsess over it way too much, but it has to be said my diagnostic kit has helped me with a lot of faults and has paid for it's self time and time again  s:) :) s:)

ilovejapcrap

#15
July 6, 2017, 23:49 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "stevex"
Quote from: "Carolyn"There is a line of code you can put into torque pro that allows it to read JOBD.  If you Google, say, 'Torque Pro jobd' I think you'll find it with instructions how to do it.  It's a pain, but I did it for my MR S.

Having said all that, looking at the stuff will probably only drive you potty.


Isn't that the truth!  s:) :) s:)

Sometimes as I've found you can obsess over it way too much, but it has to be said my diagnostic kit has helped me with a lot of faults and has paid for it's self time and time again  s:) :) s:)

Sound like you need to go to mr3(worldwide) house then lol.

He'd come to you but has a 02issue   s:D :D s:D

a

#16
July 7, 2017, 06:44 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Torque pro Found this link bought one and it works a treat.
 m http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/92691 m  ... on-jdm-ecu!

stevex

#17
July 7, 2017, 18:26 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Guest
Quote from: "ilovejapcrap"
Quote from: "stevex"
Quote from: "Carolyn"There is a line of code you can put into torque pro that allows it to read JOBD.  If you Google, say, 'Torque Pro jobd' I think you'll find it with instructions how to do it.  It's a pain, but I did it for my MR S.

Having said all that, looking at the stuff will probably only drive you potty.


Isn't that the truth!  s:) :) s:)

Sometimes as I've found you can obsess over it way too much, but it has to be said my diagnostic kit has helped me with a lot of faults and has paid for it's self time and time again  s:) :) s:)

Sound like you need to go to mr3(worldwide) house then lol.

He'd come to you but has a 02issue   s:D :D s:D

Lol true story
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