High idle problem (turbo'd car)

[Slacey]

Since fitting my Hass kit a couple of weeks back, I have an intermittent and very strange idle problem!

Some days the car will run fine, idling as normal when cold at start up and hot after a run. Other times (read most of the time) it idles fine when cold, but after a couple of minutes running when you press the clutch in the revs rise to 1.5k, then dip down to 1k, then rise to 2k and stay there. It stays like that for the duration, even if you turn off the engine then restart.
I would have suspected it to be a vacuum leak problem, but I have re-run the lines with new Samco hose, and the fact it is intermittent would suggest otherwise.

I am running the standard Hass Stage II package with the Emanage, and I also have the Profec E-01 if that helps with finding a solution.

Please help with ideas, it's driving me nuts!

[Tem]

I am running the standard Hass Stage II package with the Emanage, and I also have the Profec E-01 if that helps with finding a solution.

Do you still have the issue, if you remove the Emanage?
(and swap back to stock injectors and keep off boost)

...would narrow the cause down a lot...

[Slacey]

Do you still have the issue, if you remove the Emanage?
(and swap back to stock injectors and keep off boost)

...would narrow the cause down a lot...

I'm sure it has to be a fairly simple problem Tem - I could try that but as it's a fair bit of work I would rather eliminate the simpler stuff first  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[markiii]

considering we had to repin all the injectors, "it's a fair bit of work" is an understatement  :-) :-) :-)

[Tem]

considering we had to repin all the injectors

Ah...didn't realize that  s:? :? s:?

...simple or not, I don't even have good guesses...at first I thought about a leak, but like you said, it should show up all the time. Same goes with air in the coolant, it should show up all the time...I'd think of the control system, but it's really a wild guess  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

....to 2k and stay there. It stays like that for the duration, even if you turn off the engine then restart.

Sean, I do not know the reason why but I sympathise with you. When I got my mk1 the idle was around 2300rpms. This annoyed the hell out of me, everytime I pulled up at traffic lights people thought I wanted to race.
Still the simple fix was a plastic tyre valve cap with a small hole drilled in it, inserted into the something or other (  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:   cannot remember what it's call).
Best of luck with a solution.

[Anonymous]

When you wired the emanage in did you use the usless crimps that come with it or other/solder? It could be a emanage wiring issue.

[Slacey]

When you wired the emanage in did you use the usless crimps that come with it or other/solder? It could be a emanage wiring issue.

We used *cough* scotchlocks - Mark thinks it may be an issue with the TPS reading incorrectly, I will check the connection tonight TBH the Profec has given some seemingly dodgy TPS readings.
Anything else connection wise it could be?

[markiii]

and scotchlocks are way better than the shite they provided with teh emanage

[Anonymous]

What version software is the emanage running? Should be v1.29 or better. I'm thinking what else it could be..... And Daz would NOT be happy with scotch locks, he doesn't like them at all.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[Anonymous]

There's some way of setting the TP on the profec, so it knows what voltage relates to idle and then then you floor the throttle so it gets the voltage there. I can't remember for the life of me where the setting is, or if i just made it up   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  Have you seen this or configured it?

[Slacey]

There's some way of setting the TP on the profec, so it knows what voltage relates to idle and then then you floor the throttle so it gets the voltage there. I can't remember for the life of me where the setting is, or if i just made it up   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  Have you seen this or configured it?

There is a 'Throttle' submenu in the 'Setup' options.
It shows the voltages and you can clear them to 0 values as you would a stopwatch, it then reads correctly when I press the throttle to varying degrees. When I go back to this though after the problem has occured, the reading at what should be 0 shows a small voltage and (IIRC) a reading of 15%. One thing I did notice this morning though is that the Profec main screen is set to show boost, throttle and air input - the throttle reading never moved from 0, but when I turned the engine off when I got to work it did give a reading in the menu I mentioned above  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

As above, what version software?

[Slacey]

As above, what version software?

Sorry bud missed that - the car is downstairs I'll go check now.

[Slacey]

Ok, here we go:

Display: V1.11
Centre Unit: V1.10
Emanage: V1.39

Also some TPS info: Reading at 0% = 0.61v, reading at 100% = 4.03v

I reset the readings to 0 then pressed OK to confirm. It now seems to read correctly. I went to the main Profec screen and it was reading right on there too.
I'll repoty the readings when I get home to see if there was any variation on the trip back.

[roger]

Sean

Probably nothing to do with it, but does installation require you to unplug the ECU, or disconnect the battery?

I finally connected up the unprogrammed Unichip at the weekend, and idle  revs are now at just over 2K at start when cold. When warmed up they drop to "normal", 750 ish. I thought the ECU was just getting itself organised, but its happening again.

Personally I am not too bothered at the moment. I assumed it was a Unichip problem and that Millways could sort it, but I now wonder if it is ECU linked, and you might be having something similar?

[Slacey]

No, the ECU isn't removed. The battery is disconnected whilst carrying out any work, so it does have to relearn but the problem manifests at times when it has just been reset (as per this morning) and when the battery has been conected and the car run for a few days.

[Anonymous]

The only time I have come across erratic idling has been down to air leaks on the intake side.  Then again, I've never changed so many things at one time!

Have you checked the seal around the MAF and intake pipework / gaskets between the MAF and the manifold (or probably between maf and turbo tbh)?  Expansion might explain the intermittent nature.  I'm looking through your install pics and there's a fair few extra joints there.   s:? :? s:?  

Looking at your pics of the MAF mount (one post of the bottom, first pic), the area for the gasket to seal seems a little thin on the left hand side.

Of course, I might be talking rubbish, in which case, just ignore me.    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Jap GT300]

Another wild card.

I had the same thing with the 2ZZ until I mounted a new intake that included vanes as per the stock setup.  I guess the Emanage would overwrite the MAF signal anyway though.

[markiii]

The hass has vanes like the stock system in it.

however the o ring on teh MAF is a bit dodgy, so possible?

[Tem]

however the o ring on the MAF is a bit dodgy, so possible?

Very possible.

If you happen to have a "start-spray" around, spray it around the suspected leak at idle. If the revs rise, you just found the leak.

(obviously this only works when there's vacuum in the intake, so not under boost)

[Slacey]

Right, bit of an update. I did some research on the newcelica.org website and found that they mention the IAC (Idle Air Control) a lot as causing a similar problem. Looking at where it is mounted on the throttle body, there is a good chance that this could be clogged with oil from when the PCV hose was still connected and pressurizing the engine.
I tried spraying some throttle body cleaner in the hole last night, but couldn't get the can in position very well, and then reconnected the intake pipe and quickly pulled out the BOV and sprayed some in the hole there.

Although this didn't seem to help at the time, there is a change in the car today. Instead of the constant 2k idle, it now bounces between 1k - 2k - 1k - 2k and so on. This would suggest that the unmetered air / oil in the intake (still) is still the most likely cause.
Unfortunately to clean the IAC properly involves disconnecting the coolant lines and maybe removing the whole throttle body, so as the car is due it's 40k service I think I may just get the dealer to drain the coolant system, clean the IAC / throttle body and then refill and bleed. This eliminates a couple of potential causes.

So, before I do this (at a cost, obviously!) are there anymore ideas to try first? I may give Tem's idea a go, and I'm tempted to silicone the MAF to ensure it is actually airtight.

Thanks guys!

[Tem]

Instead of the constant 2k idle, it now bounced between 1k - 2k - 1k - 2k and so on.

Unfortunately to clean the IAC properly involves disconnecting the coolant lines

Did you disconnect any coolant lines when you installed this?

Air in the coolant will create a boundy idle cause the water temp sensor measures air bubbles as lower temp than the water and then raises the revs as it thinks your engine is cold. Then you get water again and so on...

[Slacey]

Yep, we had to cut one of the lines to feed the turbine. We did our best to ensure that no air got in, but you never know... this is why I am going to have Toyota drain and bleed the whole system.

[Tem]

I am going to have Toyota drain and bleed the whole system.

It's very easy to do yourself  s;) s;)  I can post a quick how-to, if you wanna go for it?