Disconnecting Power-steering?

[pistol pete]

I building a track only 2zz.
I have always felt on my old mk3 on track the steering is just too light!

Have thought about disconnecting the power-steering and just looping the lines together so no junk going into the lines etc.

Any one else done this? results? worth doing? better feel?
I know it will be heavy at low speeds i am not fussed out that, Chatting to someone the other day whos P/s pump had failed they carried on driving while waiting for a new one to arrive but said that the car did feel a lot better when moving

cheers

[james_ly]

I found a smaller steering wheel weighted up the steering nicely. I guess you could try disabling PS first as it's free?

[Carolyn]

I building a track only 2zz.
I have always felt on my old mk3 on track the steering is just too light!

Have thought about disconnecting the power-steering and just looping the lines together so no junk going into the lines etc.

Any one else done this? results? worth doing? better feel?
I know it will be heavy at low speeds i am not fussed out that, Chatting to someone the other day whos P/s pump had failed they carried on driving while waiting for a new one to arrive but said that the car did feel a lot better when moving

cheers

@Petrus has done this.

[Petrus]

Indeed.
Lóve it.

To try it, best not only electrically disconnect as you will then be pushing agaínst the pump.
Never mind the electicity, but loop the hydraulic lines.
To ´permanently´ remove, plug the housing and loop the rack.
You can find it in ´Southern Belle´ thread.

It is not too bad at slow speed. Just do not try move the steering when at a standstill as that is not only needlessly heavy, it also puts too much stress on the pinion connection to the steering tube. Remember that the pump aids the pinion by putting hydraulic pressure on the piston in the rack.

As to a smaller steering wheel, that does make the lever shorter but gives the connéction not
more feel as it is still the electrics intervening/assisting.

With the pump removed the choice of steering wheel size is very much restricted 
Looking into that and not going below 350mm. 

[pistol pete]

thank you!! i shall give it a go

@Petrus Not a 330mm then?

[Petrus]

thank you!! i shall give it a go

@Petrus Not a 330mm then?

Try it first with the OEM wheel.
 
Remember that the reduction of the rack is quite quick; for rather heavy aid at low speed, meaning wonderfully quick changes of direction on track but it does require muscle.
Oh and sticky rubber makes it worse.

That quickness has a downside; you don´t want a small steering wheel making it too quick at speed.

Also try the distance to your position. A bit closer gives you more elbow bend and more leverage.

Maybe you dó like 330.
With 6 hole boss fitted you may be able to borrow and try old steering wheels for size.

[m1tch]

Here is the guide for the various setups, you can't just remove it as its not a manual rack as OEM:

http://www.driftopia.com/2008/03/04/mr2-spyder-power-steering-removal-part-1/

[Petrus]

Here is the guide for the various setups, you can't just remove it as its not a manual rack as OEM:

http://www.driftopia.com/2008/03/04/mr2-spyder-power-steering-removal-part-1/

As the link illustrates, there are several roads to Rome.
More can be found on the MX fora, with a welcome extra depth of experience.

[pistol pete]

perfect.. so i could just get away with linking the two pipes together as in part 1.. the others are if i want to improve it more. am i reading that right?

cheers

[Petrus]

perfect.. so i could just get away with linking the two pipes together as in part 1.. the others are if i want to improve it more. am i reading that right?

cheers

Ánd pull the fuse, yes.

If you want to keep it this way, also disconnect and loop the rack so you don´t work to pump the oil.




Be aware that you will get a highly annoying p.a.s. fault warning light on the dash.
There is no easy way to switch it off electrically.
I found it the most practical to take the instrument cluster out and stick a piece of tape behind the sign.

This is an added advantage:

[m1tch]

perfect.. so i could just get away with linking the two pipes together as in part 1.. the others are if i want to improve it more. am i reading that right?

cheers

Should really go for a vented setup as looping the lines means that the rack is working against itself to move, there isn't a manual rack option on our MR2s unlike the MX5. I guess it depends on if you are using it for road or track.

Pull the power steering fuse first and see how it goes.

[Petrus]

Should really go for a vented setup as looping the lines means that the rack is working against itself to move,

How come? It is simple in and out. Yes you are pumping the fluid around but there is no restriction. The ´vented´ option is simply adding an ´open´air buffer.

I guess it depends on if you are using it for road or track.

How?

Pull the power steering fuse first and see how it goes.

Now that woúld be extra resistance as the pump is still in the cicuit. Quite ok to do as long as the extra resitance is taken into acount.

[pistol pete]

perfect.. so i could just get away with linking the two pipes together as in part 1.. the others are if i want to improve it more. am i reading that right?

cheers

Ánd pull the fuse, yes.

If you want to keep it this way, also disconnect and loop the rack so you don´t work to pump the oil.




Be aware that you will get a highly annoying p.a.s. fault warning light on the dash.
There is no easy way to switch it off electrically.
I found it the most practical to take the instrument cluster out and stick a piece of tape behind the sign.

This is an added advantage:

that for me is a big plus.. loosing weight!!! race car!!

So looking at your photo. making sure i get this right.
middle of the picture, the rack.. you just loop the two together.

bottom of the pic
the steering knuckle bit you put the two red plugs in? and the two pipes at the rear of that.. what are they doing? joint together too>?

thanks!!!!

[Petrus]

that for me is a big plus.. loosing weight!!! race car!!

You réally need read Southern Belle thread ;-)

So looking at your photo. making sure i get this right.
middle of the picture, the rack.. you just loop the two together.

You are circumventing the piston.

bottom of the pic
the steering knuckle bit you put the two red plugs in?

Yes.
That´s where the to lines to/fro (alternating roles) the rack sat.

and the two pipes at the rear of that.. what are they doing? joint together too>?

thanks!!!!

Yes.

Have a look under the hood and try envisage how it works.

The principle is that the steering house tells the pump (through the direction the column is turning in) which side of the piston in the rack to push, the other side needs be drained accordingly.

p.s. Be aware that this in NOT legal on the road!!!

[shnazzle]

I tried the fuse pull, it was horrendous.
So, it's a waste of time to he honest as I don't think it's any representation of the actual removal

[Petrus]

I tried the fuse pull, it was horrendous.
So, it's a waste of time to he honest as I don't think it's any representation of the actual removal

I did not even try that because it is not representative.
I saw it as a good moment to change fluid if I did not like it, so drained the fluid and looped the two lines to the pump.
Took my time to get accustomed, then did the rest.

It must be noted that it is a steering reduction meant for p.a.s. so way more direct than one intended for manual. This is an inconvinence ánd a bonus.

Slow moving, till some 15 km/h it is unpleasant. Not all thát heavy but dead.
It is a joy form 40 km/h with the advantage of a quick box, total direct feel, better response and not that much more effort*.
At speed the steering is not noticably heavier but it does give more feel.

* a position with a bit more bent elbow helps.

[Petrus]

How are you fairing Pete?

When looking for info on the abs, came accross a mention of the power steering; that in case of any failure detected, the ECU switches off the pump and the system works like manual steering.
Imo this indicates that there is no fundamental reason in the way of deleting it.
This is in line with legal technical requirements; that the power steering does not impair steering in case of failure.

Same thing power assisted brakes and abs btw. In case of failure of the gadgets it should work unhampered, just not assisted.

[pistol pete]

How dooo

I tried it yesterday by just unplugging it.  and it felt miles better..
I have only just got the car up and running.
I have a track day coming up so i will have a play then, at the moment i just want to make sure everything is okay before i start playing too much

[Petrus]

Enjoy!

[carspath]

Hi Petrus, Pete and anybody else with the knowledge to help,

Following on Petrus's last post is there any reason why not to simply pull the Type B fuse ( Fuse 50 in the owner's handbook ) and drive the car longterm if you are not bothered about the extra weight of the steering and the P/S symbol lighting up on the dashboard?

I am principally concerned about :

1) Safety
2) Not damaging any steering components in case I would want to revert back to the assisted system at a later date
3) Not damaging any other of the car's components

I have very little technical knowledge so please could you explain the relevant issues very simply for/to a rather simple person

Has anyone done this removal of Type B Fuse 50 and what has been your experience- both pros and cons please.

Thank you

Carspath

[fawtytoo]

@carspath See post #14.

Given the age of this post, @Petrus and @pistol pete will get their attention.

[carspath]

Thanks Fawty,

I have heard that pulling Fuse 50 works great and also Petrus's last post suggests that there should be no problems with pulling Fuse 50 ( unless I have misunderstood) - hence the resurrection of this thread to hear what other peoples' thoughts and experiences are ,and what Petrus's andPete's latest thoughts are.

[Gaz mr-s]

@Dev 

[Ardent]

I pulled the fuse for the purpose of experimention. Then put it back again. Not tried long term but no issues then.

[Petrus]

Pulling the fuse is half nice for experiments´ purpose.
Half because the steering movement is dampened, slowed down by the pump.
I am driving with the rack looped since BC and no issues; just more direct feel.