Barbarian Vs Ultra Racing front strut brace

[Smithy]

Good morning all I hope you're keeping safe and well?. At some point I would like to look into a suspension re fresh and then a front tower strut.
I have seen Barbarian front struts for about £100 and a little more for the Ultra racing. Anyone have any opinions or considerations for me regarding this or other choices of Strut brace?
many thanks 

[H1GRM]

Cannot comment on either but love my TRD.

Of course @Carolyn has manufactured her own excellent version.

Greg

[Carolyn]

I'm also lucky enough to have a TRD strut brace on my daily. 

I might be persuaded to make some more of our version, but I need at least six people to commit to buying as I have to special order steel.

You DO have to modify your frunk plastics to fit ours (same for the TRD).

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[Smithy]

Thanks Greg, yes that looks like it would do the job nicely. I bet you noticed a difference? 

[Smithy]

Yes that looks very nice Carolyn. actually I remember reading a post about the mods that are required to the frunk. according to last MOT (before I got her) she needed a new front shock. I have no other history so I guess that was an original shock on the way out? should I think about replacing those first to get the full benefit of a brace?   

[jvanzyl]

I've got an ultra racing one. Works brilliantly, I don't currently run with the frunk plastics.
The UR version goes around the various bottles and does a great job.

[Carolyn]

Yes that looks very nice Carolyn. actually I remember reading a post about the mods that are required to the frunk. according to last MOT (before I got her) she needed a new front shock. I have no other history so I guess that was an original shock on the way out? should I think about replacing those first to get the full benefit of a brace?   

I would.

[jvanzyl]

Yes that looks very nice Carolyn. actually I remember reading a post about the mods that are required to the frunk. according to last MOT (before I got her) she needed a new front shock. I have no other history so I guess that was an original shock on the way out? should I think about replacing those first to get the full benefit of a brace?   

Additional bracing forces the existing suspension to do it's job more.. so if you've got a leak now you're possibly going to have more of a leak...

[Smithy]

How do I tell that I need a refresh?

[Carolyn]

Check for any 'misting'around the tops of the shocks. If the gaiters are in tatters , then the shocks have quite some age on them?

In general, these are all old cars now. If there's no record of shocks being renewed - they will be ripe for replacement.

Well, that's my view. 

[Bossworld]

Check for any 'misting'around the tops of the shocks. If the gaiters are in tatters , then the shocks have quite some age on them?

In general, these are all old cars now. If there's no record of shocks being renewed - they will be ripe for replacement.

Well, that's my view. 

Fully agree, mine had done 135k and having swapped out for some new(er) stuff, it made a hell of a difference.  Changing the top mounts for brand new ones (and doing the arms) also got rid of some steering wheel vibration at 70mph too.

[Smithy]

Thanks very much everyone. sorry to go a little off topic at the end but I don't want to spend my money on something like a brace only to find that other more important parts need replacing first. 

[jvanzyl]

Thanks very much everyone. sorry to go a little off topic at the end but I don't want to spend my money on something like a brace only to find that other more important parts need replacing first. 

Your view is completely valid. There have been a few suggestions on order of priority in the past but for your reference:
1 - Normal servicing, oil change every 5k etc.. if you can lubricate your brakes once a year you're doing well!
2 - address tyres. Make sure they're all matching and inflated (to start with) to 26psi front and 32psi rear.
3 - address suspension - you can go down the convenience route and swap out for coilovers but you will possibly regret it later on due to the firmer ride, but you may not.. typically oem suspension strut refresh all round will set you back about £600 in parts.
4 - address bushings - with suspension now sorted, address your bushings - I'd recommend stock rubber where possible, but go with polys if you need to. Life span of rubber is circa 10 years/100k miles.. thereafter you WILL feel the difference when replaced.
5 - address bracing - now that you car is back to what it was like when it came out of the showroom (ish :-)) time to add in some additional braces that will reduce rattles, make the car feel "bigger" as you tackle bumps and basically make it better. Ones that make big differences are , front strut brace, mid under brace (TTE/Carolyn), breastplate (Snelbaard corky reproduction), and front under brace if you have a PFL. rear strut brace has not been known to do anything other than look nicer.. snelbaard makes some amazing braces for the rear under side but they aint cheap due to the complexity in manufacture but I've read great reviews about them in the past as they are Toms brace reproductions.

Now that you car handles better, it's time to think of power. I've not bothered with braking as the only real "upgrade" is steel brake lines. Standard discs and pads seem to the trick for most and TechnoSpirit info seems to suggest that the only thing different to stock was some more expensive pads.. but whatever.
 
6 - Power. There is no cheap increase in power. There is only cheap (ish) removal of things that restrict it.
You can go down the MAF mod route to get a bit more torque. It's marginal, but it's there. replacing things like stock exhaust, cat and manifold can reduce weight and help the engine to rev a bit better, lightened flywheel makes a difference in this sense as well. If you want to actually produce more power on the stock engine your options are turbo or supercharger (rotrex or Carolyns version), you're likely looking at about £3k plus to pass 200 whp.
Then you get to engine swapping with 2zz or AR series things, or going down the V6 route.. all of this is more money.

7 - Weight removal - just see Petrus's thread. He's lost 100kg's so that'll make a nice difference. 

Hope this helps with the prioritization!

[Smithy]

This is amazing advice thanks so much. I will work through the list over time, but it's given me guidance on where to spend my money

[Petrus]

Obviously I´d move point 7. up as most of it is for free    ánd apart from point 1. affects all else, even tyres.

Crucial in weighing your options are your priorities, how you predominant use your car and real world factors. If your use is on public roads and you need to manage speed bumps, then ground clearance is a literally hard factor per example.
Same thing the exhaust note: A built up housing estate  is a weighty real world factor even though there is 10 hp to be found on that end.

Have fun!!!

[Beachbum957]

Your view is completely valid. There have been a few suggestions on order of priority in the past but for your reference:

Excellent advice!

Some people skip bracing because it doesn't make the car "faster", but the comment "...add in some additional braces that will reduce rattles, make the car feel "bigger" as you tackle bumps and basically make it better" is exactly right.  It is especially true if you have stiffer than stock suspension, as that transfers more loads in the chassis.

On our 2002, we have a Tom's front lower brace (long out of production), a TRD front strut brace, a Corkys breastplate (now made by Snelbaard), a Carbing rear lower brace and an Autopower roll bar (added for stiffness, not roll over protection).  Each was added one at a time, and the change that had the biggest effect was the breastplate, followed by the roll bar.  If you have a limited budget, spend it in a breastplate or mid brace like Carolyn's as they add a lot of torsional rigidity.

If you have a FL car, you can skip the front lower brace and rear lower brace as the cars come with additional bracing stock.

[Petrus]

Some people skip bracing because it doesn't make the car "faster",

Others, p.e. me, do not brace the car to the max to maintain some chassis flex; conformation on real world secondary roads.

There is very seldom no trade off when modding.
Imo sway bars are thé example of trade off choices.
What is ´best´ depends on what you want; quite a few like the car as Mr.T  sold it.

[shnazzle]

Some people skip bracing because it doesn't make the car "faster",

Others, p.e. me, do not brace the car to the max to maintain some chassis flex; conformation on real world secondary roads.

There is very seldom no trade off when modding.
Imo sway bars are thé example of trade off choices.
What is ´best´ depends on what you want; quite a few like the car as Mr.T  sold it.

Despite all the things I've done to mine, I'm one of those few.

Helen's is stock with the exception of a front brace but even before that brace it's such a pleasant car to drive. It's so good even in stock form.
An example of how little this all matters; aaaaages ago we had a hell of a run out in Scotland. My mr2, braced, coilovers, sticky tyres. Absolutely hauling it. In front of us, an older lady in a bog standard Yaris.
She remained in front of us. And we hauled bumbum the entire way.
To this day we call her turbo granny.

Stock car + top notch driving skills > modified car + good driving

[Petrus]

Stock car + top notch driving skills > modified car + good driving

As you know, I raced for mány years. Motorcyles and cars, internationally. Being Dutch amateur racer doingmy own spanner work, never had the fast stuff, nor the latest ánd the more reliable option. Always punched WELL above the weight and sometimes above the possibilities of the material.
Back in the early eighties an famous racer observed to me in the paddock; ány motorbike is a racing bike if you have the balls to race it. That applies to cars as well. There is a meme on the web... will have a look. (found it; see below)
Anyway, never mind those stories but the performance margin of their racer even most semi pro racers left on the tarmac is a perfect perspective: Véry few drivers can drive the MR2 to the max of the OEM limits and way less so on the public roads.
Thus most modifications are mostly personalisations without any real nééd on the road.


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[shnazzle]

In my example,there were no balls involved
Helen was driving and the Yaris was an old lady hahaha

[Petrus]

It´s moth balls here 

First half reason to get the MR rolling since last Friday will be half way néxt week getting the box of wine from the gas station pretending to top up gas and going shopping in the village.

[MR2Bart1991]

So is this the most effective brace to start with on a facelifted car or is the breastplate more effective?
i'm just trying to solve the body roll somewhat and cant do all the bracing all at once offcourse because "Money"

[shnazzle]

So is this the most effective brace to start with on a facelifted car or is the breastplate more effective?
i'm just trying to solve the body roll somewhat and cant do all the bracing all at once offcourse because "Money"

Both are equally effective but the effect you're after is given more by the breastplate or "TTE brace" or "Matt's brace" or "Carolyn's brace".


Front strut makes the front end more "pointy". And it really does. 
A good mid brace really makes the car feel more solid. 

There's tons of discussions on the forum about the pros and cons of bracing, too much bracing, incorrect bracing, etc etc  but the "seat of pants" rule of thumb here is that the mid brace is pretty much a requirement.

[MR2Bart1991]

So is this the most effective brace to start with on a facelifted car or is the breastplate more effective?
i'm just trying to solve the body roll somewhat and cant do all the bracing all at once offcourse because "Money"

Both are equally effective but the effect you're after is given more by the breastplate or "TTE brace" or "Matt's brace" or "Carolyn's brace".


Front strut makes the front end more "pointy". And it really does.
A good mid brace really makes the car feel more solid.

There's tons of discussions on the forum about the pros and cons of bracing, too much bracing, incorrect bracing, etc etc  but the "seat of pants" rule of thumb here is that the mid brace is pretty much a requirement.

So according to your review the Carolyn brace is the one to go for right? these things are hard to find it seems when looking on the internet but definetly looks like the thing i need first as far as bracing goes.

[shnazzle]

So is this the most effective brace to start with on a facelifted car or is the breastplate more effective?
i'm just trying to solve the body roll somewhat and cant do all the bracing all at once offcourse because "Money"

Both are equally effective but the effect you're after is given more by the breastplate or "TTE brace" or "Matt's brace" or "Carolyn's brace".


Front strut makes the front end more "pointy". And it really does.
A good mid brace really makes the car feel more solid.

There's tons of discussions on the forum about the pros and cons of bracing, too much bracing, incorrect bracing, etc etc  but the "seat of pants" rule of thumb here is that the mid brace is pretty much a requirement.

So according to your review the Carolyn brace is the one to go for right? these things are hard to find it seems when looking on the internet but definetly looks like the thing i need first as far as bracing goes.

It would take some doing to convince Carolyn to make another batch. It's hard work and Carolyn and David aren't the young whippersnappers they used to be  

But they are, in my opinion the dog's danglies.

Next is the TTE mid brace. Or Matt's copy of it. They come up very very rarely. 
Then there are a number of alternatives after that but maybe the most available of all at the minute is @Snelbaard 's breastplate. It does the job but obviously not quite as effective as a brave that spans a much bigger area. 
Steve @ Megillian also made a brace and they come up for sale from time to time but unfortunately, as much as I like Steve, I can't recommend buying from him at the minute. He's too busy. 

Have a good Google. EBay may have something. Contact @Snelbaard. And maybe if @Carolyn sells the rights to her design you can get someone else to build it